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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 20:53:50 GMT -5
So, who's your guy? Who's the better hero?
But, to get this from getting complicated, maybe we should establish whether we use a Greek definition of hero, or the modern one.
Although I think we should use the Greek one, because it's cooler.
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 21:03:35 GMT -5
Greek, please.
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Post by andreaisabbbw on Jun 13, 2011 21:05:59 GMT -5
I really like both. But if I had to choose, I'd go with Hector. Achilles acted cruelly towards him after he killed him.
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 21:07:49 GMT -5
I really like both. But if I had to choose, I'd go with Hector. Achilles acted cruelly towards him after he killed him. If we go with the Greek definition, his actions, not matter how ass-holish make him a BAMF. |
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Post by andreaisabbbw on Jun 13, 2011 21:16:59 GMT -5
I really like both. But if I had to choose, I'd go with Hector. Achilles acted cruelly towards him after he killed him. If we go with the Greek definition, his actions, not matter how ass-holish make him a BAMF. True. But Hector had a pretty great tragic fall, too. |
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 21:19:18 GMT -5
If we go with the Greek definition, his actions, not matter how ass-holish make him a BAMF. True. But Hector had a pretty great tragic fall, too. What do you mean by tragic fall? |
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 21:26:55 GMT -5
ACHILLES/AKHILLEUS ALL THE WAY.
Plus, Hector killed Patroklos... And Achilles had every right to be angry. Besides, then he took Achilles' armor of Patroklos's dead body.
(I liked our translation. It spelled Achilles Akhilleus and Patroclus Patroklos. It's the one by Robert Fitzgerald, I believe...)
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 21:33:28 GMT -5
ACHILLES/AKHILLEUS ALL THE WAY. Plus, Hector killed Patroklos... And Achilles had every right to be angry. Besides, then he took Achilles' armor of Patroklos's dead body. (I liked our translation. It spelled Achilles Akhilleus and Patroclus Patroklos. It's the one by Robert Fitzgerald, I believe...) He had every right to, to the victor go the spoils. Warriors often took the enemies armor and/or weapons if they were better than theirs. It was his prize, it's wasn't his fault that Patroklos was a dum-dum. |
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 21:36:22 GMT -5
ACHILLES/AKHILLEUS ALL THE WAY. Plus, Hector killed Patroklos... And Achilles had every right to be angry. Besides, then he took Achilles' armor of Patroklos's dead body. (I liked our translation. It spelled Achilles Akhilleus and Patroclus Patroklos. It's the one by Robert Fitzgerald, I believe...) He had every right to, to the victor go the spoils. Warriors often took the enemies armor and/or weapons if they were better than theirs. It was his prize, it's wasn't his fault that Patroklos was a dum-dum. I know they did. I'm just saying Achilles was still allowed to be pissed, because he was somewhat petulant at times (but still very awesome), because the armor was special-made. Also it wasn't like Hector killed Achilles and got the armor. He killed a lesser warrior and got the armor. Eh. Am I making no sense here? |
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 21:41:05 GMT -5
He had every right to, to the victor go the spoils. Warriors often took the enemies armor and/or weapons if they were better than theirs. It was his prize, it's wasn't his fault that Patroklos was a dum-dum. I know they did. I'm just saying Achilles was still allowed to be pissed, because he was somewhat petulant at times (but still very awesome), because the armor was special-made. Also it wasn't like Hector killed Achilles and got the armor. He killed a lesser warrior and got the armor. Eh. Am I making no sense here? You are, but you could say that it was Patroclus's hubris that led to his death, because he believed himself good enough to fight against the mighty Hector, well then, it was the tragic flaw that killed him. Besides, Achillies gets much better armor from when he goes to whine to his mom. |
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 21:50:19 GMT -5
I know they did. I'm just saying Achilles was still allowed to be pissed, because he was somewhat petulant at times (but still very awesome), because the armor was special-made. Also it wasn't like Hector killed Achilles and got the armor. He killed a lesser warrior and got the armor. Eh. Am I making no sense here? You are, but you could say that it was Patroclus's hubris that led to his death, because he believed himself good enough to fight against the mighty Hector, well then, it was the tragic flaw that killed him. Besides, Achillies gets much better armor from when he goes to whine to his mom. True, but I still am amused that they chase each other around Troy about three and a half times. |
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 21:57:39 GMT -5
Achilles win the fight, which makes him the winner and a better warrior. If not hero. Thoughts on that?
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 21:59:43 GMT -5
But the gods helped him out a lot! (... devil's advocate here)
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Post by Marina on Jun 13, 2011 22:00:57 GMT -5
But the gods helped him out a lot! (... devil's advocate here) The God's helped both of them. Hector simply lost favor with them. (... the devil  ) |
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Post by Silva on Jun 13, 2011 22:06:07 GMT -5
But the gods helped him out a lot! (... devil's advocate here) The God's helped both of them. Hector simply lost favor with them. (... the devil ) I was under the impression that the gods stopped helping Hector because they were obligated to defend fate.. and really if they had wanted to, they could have messed it all up, in my opinion. Zeus even wanted to let Hector live but Athena has to persuade him... plus the scales, I guess. |
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