Gender Identity

[Deleted]

I'm sure a great many poststructuralists, psychologists, neuroscientists and sociologists would be as intrigued by that answer as I am.

I know that my behaviour has inevitably been affected and shaped by the expectations held of me on account of the sexual organs between my legs. I'm in no way comfortable with all of the stereotypically manly behaviours and traits, like emotional repression, strength, aggression and so on, but the fact that I'm not particularly manly doesn't detract from my belief that I am a man, in a more than biological sense. Yet I know that the assignations are almost completely arbitrary. I have absolutely no issue with people identifying as whatever gender they want, because it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to say that someone cannot be transgender when I can conceive of myself as being cisgender, if that makes sense.

As an LGBT person, I try to be informed about transgender issues, but I think what I really need are some good recommendations of books or articles by transgender people about the feelings and philosophy behind their identity. As an armadillo my natural recourse is to try and identify with human experience through fiction

So if anyone knows any good accounts of gender confusion or sex-gender disparity, or any psychological/philosophical analysis of the area, by all means share them with the group!

[onlyaworkingtitle]

Jun 16, 2011 5:40:03 GMT -5 cyanea said:

Jun 16, 2011 4:51:45 GMT -5 onlyaworkingtitle said:

I've had similarly circuitous thought-patterns on the topic -- wearing a dress is only "womanly" because society says so, but then do male-bodied people who like to wear dresses identify as "women" based on society, or on themselves? (Dress-wearing is, of course, the most basic [and highly limited] example, but I'm using it here as an umbrella-term to hold all the other stereotypically "womanly" activities and traits.) It's one of those conundrums that we'll just have to take the word of the experts (that is to say, of the people who identify with a gender other than what the doctor said when they pulled them out and said "It's a ___!"), because we cisgender folks just can't relate. So we'll fight for their rights to be of whatever sexual orientation they find themselves orientated to, and accept on good will that they're not all making it up as some huge conspiracy.

(Apoligies in advance if this reply makes little sense; I really should be asleep now.)

I know that my pitiful attempts to explain my gender identity were just that. It's...hard to put into words other than to say that I just feel wrong as a male, and those feelings stem from the discomfort I felt at male gender roles, socially assigned or not. I know I don't speak for my trans brothers and sisters, but it's like trying to explain something when you don't know the language.

Well, consider my conspiracy theories shelved.

[andy]

Jun 14, 2011 5:43:52 GMT -5 @sabazius said:

If gender is a social construct, then however you feel about your gender is perfectly valid. But does that mean I'm limiting myself by not purposefully transcending gender and embracing the full range of queerness? Or am I just being a philosophical wanker who has no conception of how seriously central to the self someone's gender is, especially if their assigned gender is different from their sex, and who is only playing with the concept because he's privileged enough to do so without repression and feels like he's missing out if he doesn't?

I don't think exposing the con that gender norming is makes you a privileged philosophical wanker, on the contrary, I know that I, at least, as a female bodied person am grateful to you for continuing the good work that feminists started. It's absolutely bizarre how many people now assume that cisgendered = privileged by gender norming. Muslim women who have to go around hiding their faces - if they can go around at all and are not locked in their houses by their husbands and Western 'secular' laws which now make it illegal for them to go outdoors are not privileged by gender norming, neither are young girls in Bangladesh whose parents refuse to send them to school while allowing their brothers to get educated - for all people suffering from institutional, culture-wide sexism saying that gender is nothing more than arbitrary cultural norms is the only means they have to allow themselves to think of themselves as human beings capable of everything men are capable of instead of naive child bearing machines owned by their fathers and husbands. Western cultural norms might have evolved enough to allow women to be regarded as equal to men, but that doesn't mean non-western cultural norms have. By reinforcing the idea that there's nothing wrong with supporting gender stereotypes, that on the contrary, eradicating them harms people, you're reinforcing the idea that women should continue to be regarded as inferior to men.

[Deleted]

Wow, you've completely expressed the issue that I was trying to highlight, thank you.
If a male-sexed person feels that they are female-gendered, and they express that by conforming to a repressive, damaging stereotype of what it means to be a woman, is that sexist? Or is it transphobic to even think that, since if a female-sexed person behaved in accordance with that stereotype we'd simply call them old-fashioned?

[Annie Ozone]

Cisgender female, reporting for duty!

It's absolutely bizarre how many people now assume that cisgendered = privileged by gender norming.

Actually, it's not at all bizarre. Cisgender people are privileged--check out the Cisgender Privilege Checklist. And they don't even mention the absolute shit the U.S. government puts trans folk through--DMV records, passports, voter's registration, etc.

Sexism and transphobia are very, very different things, though they do commonly intersect, along with racism and homophobia. It's a messy tangle shat out by the kyriarchy and dumped squarely on the heads of everyone not white, male, heterosexual, able-bodied, cisgender, conventionally attractive, Christian, etc. (Not that the people who meet those requirements aren't also allies; they just have the privilege of not noticing others' discomfort with the hegemonic norm.)

Also, I'm deeply uncomfortable with the use of the hijab and burqa as examples of oppressive sexism, as well as the use of non-Western cultural norms to mean sexist.

Sabazius, if I understand correctly, you're talking about the gender binary, and if you or others should perform to it? I'm not understanding the question very well...

And, whoever was asking before AH HA, sabazius again!, I found a couple of recommended transgender/transex/intersex booklists here and here. Dunno how good they are, honestly, they were found via Dr. Internet--I myself am woefully under-educated on trans issues.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2011 3:22:12 GMT -5 Annie Ozone said:

Sabazius, if I understand correctly, you're talking about the gender binary, and if you or others should perform to it? I'm not understanding the question very well...

And, whoever was asking before AH HA, sabazius again!, I found a couple of recommended transgender/transex/intersex booklists here and here. Dunno how good they are, honestly, they were found via Dr. Internet--I myself am woefully under-educated on trans issues.

I'm not sure I expressed myself very well, and it doesn't help that I asked several semi-rhetorical questions in various different posts... but that's one of the things I'm not sure about, yeah.

Those reading lists look great as well, thanks! I'll bully the LGBT committee at my uni to buy some of them for our library XD

[WhatIf]

I'm a cisgender female.