andy
Young Armadillo
Posts: 80
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Post by andy on Jun 6, 2011 15:01:10 GMT -5
Despite this website being "Fuck Yeah English Major Armadillo", I somehow plan to not go to college. I want to work minimum wage jobs and write on the side. Why? Because a creative writing degree is useless for me. I already know how to analyze literature, and it's not that hard to read novels, read up on symbolism, blah blah blah. Essentially, I don't have anything to learn that I can't teach myself. And I want to be a famous author. People keep telling me that this is the most unrealistic thing ever (working to become a professional fiction writer), if only because a major thing in the publishing industry is luck (on a lot of levels). You need the 'luck'-ish to find an agent. You need the 'luck' to find a good agent. Then, you need the genuine luck of getting a contract with a major publisher. And then, you need people to read your book, like it, and spread it by word of mouth. But, you know what? Fuck you, reality. I refuse to bend into your demands. Note: My life goals include walking across the United States, getting lost in at least one major city in every state, learning to shoot a gun, getting a license to conceal and carry, getting a fourth degree black belt in karate and judo, walking into a large city with nothing but the clothing on my back and a knife and being homeless for three months, starting up one or more projects to inspire others in differing ways, staring up a charitable organization if I ever have the money, going on mission trips to foreign countries, learning to play the piano, and... Well. Yeah. I also have a list of clothing I can and can't wear in case of an inopportune alien invasion, as well as a prospective car kit for the same thing for whenever I get a car. At this point, you can probably tell that I live on the philosophy of telling reality to fuck itself. xD. James If the idea of spending four years in college and getting yourself in enormous amounts of debt for a degree seems unappealing, maybe you should look into career options which don't involve degrees because they can be very rewarding and interesting. You could, for example, work as a firefighter or an ambulance technician/emergency care assistant or even as a pilot or air traffic controller. The training will take a while, but a lot less than what a degree would take (usually under one year) and it's a lot less expensive than a degree (often your employer will actually pay for the whole training). And working on an ambulance, saving lives day in and day out must sound a lot better than shelving boxes of cereals day in and day out.  |
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 3:58:32 GMT -5
Despite this website being "Fuck Yeah English Major Armadillo", I somehow plan to not go to college. I want to work minimum wage jobs and write on the side. Why? Because a creative writing degree is useless for me. I already know how to analyze literature, and it's not that hard to read novels, read up on symbolism, blah blah blah. Essentially, I don't have anything to learn that I can't teach myself. And I want to be a famous author. People keep telling me that this is the most unrealistic thing ever (working to become a professional fiction writer), if only because a major thing in the publishing industry is luck (on a lot of levels). You need the 'luck'-ish to find an agent. You need the 'luck' to find a good agent. Then, you need the genuine luck of getting a contract with a major publisher. And then, you need people to read your book, like it, and spread it by word of mouth. But, you know what? Fuck you, reality. I refuse to bend into your demands. Note: My life goals include walking across the United States, getting lost in at least one major city in every state, learning to shoot a gun, getting a license to conceal and carry, getting a fourth degree black belt in karate and judo, walking into a large city with nothing but the clothing on my back and a knife and being homeless for three months, starting up one or more projects to inspire others in differing ways, staring up a charitable organization if I ever have the money, going on mission trips to foreign countries, learning to play the piano, and... Well. Yeah. I also have a list of clothing I can and can't wear in case of an inopportune alien invasion, as well as a prospective car kit for the same thing for whenever I get a car. At this point, you can probably tell that I live on the philosophy of telling reality to fuck itself. xD. James You have no clue all the things you're missing out on. If you think you can teach yourself structuralism, deconstruction, marxist criticism, feminist criticism, post-colonialism, romanticism, modernism, postmodernism, and all the other shit they'd toss at you in four years at college, then you've fooled yourself, friend. It's cool that you want to write. So do I. I thought I was a good writer before college too, but when you get in that first creative writing workshop and your piece gets torn to shreds, there's no other feeling to compare it too. |
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 3:59:41 GMT -5
Kid wants to be a famous author but doesn't want to put in the time to learn the craft. I've got to question your dedication to writing.
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invision
Armadillo Pup
Random Axe of Kindness
Posts: 47
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Post by invision on Jun 7, 2011 13:16:02 GMT -5
Kid wants to be a famous author but doesn't want to put in the time to learn the craft. I've got to question your dedication to writing. A lot of what other people have said here is completely valid, but this, I don't understand. In what world does a person need to have a degree to become a great author? A ton of people didn't have anywhere close to a degree, and still managed to do it (or at least, didn't have an English-related one). An unwillingness to spend thousands of dollars on an unnecessary degree makes sense; don't question a person's dedication because they don't want to go to a university. That's stupid. It's a creative field; degrees are not necessarily required. You can question my dedication all you want, but at least do it for a reason that makes some sense. James |
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Post by Olive on Jun 7, 2011 14:48:14 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there... why on earth you'd want to work minimum wage for the rest of your life, I'll never understand. It's nearly impossible to live off of it unless you're working well over 40 hours a week, which leaves very little time for writing.
Plus, the lack of respect that often comes with a minimum wage job quickly becomes infuriating, and no, that anger doesn't really help with the writing process.
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 18:07:20 GMT -5
Kid wants to be a famous author but doesn't want to put in the time to learn the craft. I've got to question your dedication to writing. A lot of what other people have said here is completely valid, but this, I don't understand. In what world does a person need to have a degree to become a great author? A ton of people didn't have anywhere close to a degree, and still managed to do it (or at least, didn't have an English-related one). An unwillingness to spend thousands of dollars on an unnecessary degree makes sense; don't question a person's dedication because they don't want to go to a university. That's stupid. It's a creative field; degrees are not necessarily required. You can question my dedication all you want, but at least do it for a reason that makes some sense. James It has nothing to do with a degree. It's all about the arrogance with which you approach writing. It's something every single writer I know had at the age of seventeen or eighteen, but when you get into those workshops and theory course, you'll learn things about writing, literature, and language you never even knew existed. Imagine how much you're missing out on. I'm questioning your dedication to writing because you're approaching it with the cockiness of someone who think he's much better than he probably is. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I'm being honest. You can say "fuck you" to reality all you want, but publishing is a business and in this economic crisis no one will take a chace on a writer with no experience or education, and college course will give you the education and teach you how to break into publishing. |
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Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 7, 2011 18:16:52 GMT -5
You're both right and you're both wrong. Writing takes practice, like all skills, but you also don't necessarily need to attend university to get in that practice. What you do need, though, is dedication and a willingness to be open about learning and criticism.
Writing workshops are valuable, but not always necessary. College isn't for everyone, though it can help and usually does.
ETA: Another thing I'd like to mention, and feel free to take it or leave it, but a writer needs to be able to recognize bad writing, especially when you are the one writing it. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be trying to get published until you've begun to learn how. Again, writing is a skill.
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 18:28:28 GMT -5
You're both right and you're both wrong. Writing takes practice, like all skills, but you also don't necessarily need to attend university to get in that practice. What you do need, though, is dedication and a willingness to be open about learning and criticism. Writing workshops are valuable, but not always necessary. College isn't for everyone, though it can help and usually does. I realize this. I'm not claiming that he can't make it. I'm just saying that there's inherent arrogance (and perhaps ignorance) in his assumption that he either already knows everything there is to know about writing and literature, or that he can teach it to himself. Maybe he does and maybe he can, but it's not likely, and it's not likely that he'll find success as a writer when he has to work 50 hours a week to afford food. It's just a dumb opinion. |
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Post by andreaisabbbw on Jun 8, 2011 23:11:32 GMT -5
Despite this website being "Fuck Yeah English Major Armadillo", I somehow plan to not go to college. I want to work minimum wage jobs and write on the side. Why? Because a creative writing degree is useless for me. I already know how to analyze literature, and it's not that hard to read novels, read up on symbolism, blah blah blah. Essentially, I don't have anything to learn that I can't teach myself. And I want to be a famous author. People keep telling me that this is the most unrealistic thing ever (working to become a professional fiction writer), if only because a major thing in the publishing industry is luck (on a lot of levels). You need the 'luck'-ish to find an agent. You need the 'luck' to find a good agent. Then, you need the genuine luck of getting a contract with a major publisher. And then, you need people to read your book, like it, and spread it by word of mouth. But, you know what? Fuck you, reality. I refuse to bend into your demands. Note: My life goals include walking across the United States, getting lost in at least one major city in every state, learning to shoot a gun, getting a license to conceal and carry, getting a fourth degree black belt in karate and judo, walking into a large city with nothing but the clothing on my back and a knife and being homeless for three months, starting up one or more projects to inspire others in differing ways, staring up a charitable organization if I ever have the money, going on mission trips to foreign countries, learning to play the piano, and... Well. Yeah. I also have a list of clothing I can and can't wear in case of an inopportune alien invasion, as well as a prospective car kit for the same thing for whenever I get a car. At this point, you can probably tell that I live on the philosophy of telling reality to fuck itself. xD. James You have no clue all the things you're missing out on. If you think you can teach yourself structuralism, deconstruction, marxist criticism, feminist criticism, post-colonialism, romanticism, modernism, postmodernism, and all the other shit they'd toss at you in four years at college, then you've fooled yourself, friend. It's cool that you want to write. So do I. I thought I was a good writer before college too, but when you get in that first creative writing workshop and your piece gets torn to shreds, there's no other feeling to compare it too. ALL OF THIS. You need to know these things so you can build your background. We're not all Mary Shelleys who can write a novel like Frankenstein at the age of eighteen. College or even writing workshops build your background so you know what you're talking about when you get down to writing. I get that you have a romantic view of live, a taste for adventure and roughing it out, but there's just some things you need if you want to write professionally. As for myself, I have five life plans to fall back on in case my goal of getting my Master's in English Lit and working at a prestigious publishing house fall through. |
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Post by cyanea on Jun 9, 2011 0:26:23 GMT -5
I want to work minimum wage jobs and write on the side. The problem with this plan: minimum wage jobs are exhausting -- far more so than the average white-collar cubicle gig. When you get home from it, you'll more likely just want to crash on the couch rather than sit in front of your computer to work another job (which, if you plan to do it professionally, writing is). And do you plan to have a social life along with this? Friends, relationships? Those will take time, too -- and even more energy -- and without them, where will you get inspiration for your writing, for unique characters, for uncommon plot twists? I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you love; just that you shouldn't limit yourself to one dream when there are so many more possibilities out there to people who dedicate four years to a college education. It's almost scary how much you sound like me, OP. In fact, I think I used those exact words to describe my future. I'm really not trying to sound all Granpappy Cy, but the above quote is exactly what you're going to experience. I worked in both minimum wage retail and full-time "trade" which are really your only options if you're not lucky enough to land a sweet gig. Both were horrible, soul-sucking experiences that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I worked harder at my minimum wage jobs than I ever did at my fulltime one and got paid almost 20k less per year for it. One job hired me as a cashier, but had me push carts everyday because that's "what the team needed". The "team" also felt justified paying me the 6.15/hr that a cartpusher makes as opposed to the 9/hr that a cashier does because that was my "primary task". Even on days I spent cashiering. Their words, not mine. I had no other choice but to do it, because rent was due and nobody else was hiring. I worked 40/hr weeks regularly, and was often scheduled to push carts until midnight and scheduled to cashier the next morning at ten. When I worked at a convenience store, I was fired because someone on my shift stole 500$ worth of cigarrettes and they found it easier to replace us all rather than investigate. Soon after the convenience store, I got lucky and found a fulltime "trade" job. I worked for a company that installed telephone equipment in Verizon buildings. I was up at 4am everyday. I wasn't union, so the bosses saw little problem with giving us 15-minute lunch breaks. I worked with a guy who was in the industry for 45 years and couldn't retire because he didn't have enough money saved away...he had a fucked up back, his fingers were mangled, and he had trouble maintaining a grip on things for long periods of time. Plus, he was no longer "all there", if you get what I mean. Two years at that job and three years at various retail jobs taught me that no...working minimum wage is not the best plan. It's soulsucking, exhausting hell. A job is nothing more than a means to an end for me...the worth of my life stems from what I do off the job. The job's only there to fund my life. But if I have to sit through four years of bullshit college so that my job-life becomes a little easier, then I'll do it. That's the decision I reached after five years "off" from school. If I can spare someone else that, I'm going to try. You don't need a degree in creative writing to be a writer. Get a degree in something else that interests you and is perhaps more lucrative. Use that to fund your writing. |
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Post by thestrangewinston on Jun 10, 2011 12:22:20 GMT -5
I was going into international politics and diplomacy but a lot of things have gotten in the way of that(uncontrollable things, acts of nature so to speak) so it looks like I might be going into law. I am really interested in that though so it isn't really like I have had a dream shot down or anything.
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 11, 2011 1:14:59 GMT -5
Re-read the thread. Pissed me off even more the second time around. I wonder if this guy comes from privilege.
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invision
Armadillo Pup
Random Axe of Kindness
Posts: 47
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Post by invision on Jun 11, 2011 2:12:11 GMT -5
Re-read the thread. Pissed me off even more the second time around. I wonder if this guy comes from privilege. Let me get this straight. I said I didn't want to go to college because it would be useless for my degree, then go on to say that I'd rather work minimum wage and make shit money than waste my money by going to college. I already know that I'm an arrogant fuck, but to be honest? I don't care. It doesn't change a damned thing about how I handle my writing. I attend writing workshops, I'm attending highschool, I'm writing - and I'm not refusing to accept criticism because I'm this oh so perfect author who already knows everything, either. As far as the whole 'fuck college, I should go work minimum wage' thing, I have three years to decide against it. Hell, I'm so goddamned fickle at this point that in a week or two I might have an entirely different career path in mind. Where I'm going after highschool is completely fucking theoretical at this point. I am returning to tenth grade next September, and then I have two more years to go before graduating. Basically, you start applying to college in the second half of eleventh grade (if I recall right). So, at the least, I have two years to decide, and at the most, I have 3-4. As far as working forty hours a week, HAHAHAHAHAHA. In what world is that hard? I've worked eighty hour to a hundred hour weeks before, without pay. Forty hours is so fucking easy in comparison. I have a bit of a problem with people accusing me of having a privileged, considering that I had a bit of a privileged childhood (both of my parents are lawyers), but, seriously? Nothing I've said in this thread is much of a hint of being privileged. As far as no one taking a chance on a writer with no experience or education, do you know what a fucking agent does? He (or she) reads your writing. They do not ask your age. They do not ask your credentials. They ask for your writing. Your credentials and experience don't matter. Your ability does. Publishing houses are similar. If you can write, and you have a good agent, you have a good chance of getting published (although it's never a hundred percent one, obviously, and what happens after that has a lot based upon luck). At this point, none of your posts are even constructive. In this post (the one I'm replying to), all you're saying is that my responses piss you off (and other peoples', partially, but I'm guessing it's mine, since you've mostly talked to me in this thread). Honestly, where do you think that's going to get you? James |
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 11, 2011 2:32:28 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. I said I didn't want to go to college because it would be useless for my degree, then go on to say that I'd rather work minimum wage and make shit money than waste my money by going to college. I already know that I'm an arrogant fuck, but to be honest? I don't care. It doesn't change a damned thing about how I handle my writing. I attend writing workshops, I'm attending highschool, I'm writing - and I'm not refusing to accept criticism because I'm this oh so perfect author who already knows everything, either. You said in your original post that anything college could teach you, you either already knew or could teach yourself. Don't get pissed at me for calling you out for the exact words you said. Then I'm not sure why you even made this post. Do you realize how much minimum wage is and how difficult it is too live on minimum wage? You really don't, do you? This is why I'm calling you out for being an arrogant little prick. Everything about your post screams privilege, but particularly, it's your lax attitude about living on minimum wage. You've clearly never had to do it before. Minimum wage is not a living wage, and if you think you'll have enough time to support yourself and still do the hours of writing it takes to finish projects (and the ridiculous amount of time querying/proposals take), you're completely fooling yourself. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING AGENT WILL ASK FOR YOUR CREDENTIALS AND EXPERIENCE. You don't know what you're talking about, dude. No agent will even read your stuff until you've written a query or proposal, both of which will require you to talk about your experience, education, and publications. How often do you think an agent reads a query from a guy who graduated high school at 21, has no higher education, and no professional writing experience and says, "Wow, I'd really like to read this persons manuscript"? Dude, you're so far off. Firstly, again, no agent will read your work unless they feel as if you have something worthwhile to offer, and without an education, experience, or credentials, you stand basically no chance. Very few publishing houses will read your stuff without having to go through an agent, so you'll never even come into contact with a publishing house, much less get anything published. My posts are constructive. You have a terrible plan and it'll never work. How much more constructive could I possibly be? You sound like one of those kids who'll end up getting propped up by your parents until you're 25, chasing a dream but not willing to put in the actual work it takes to accomplish that dream. I hate people like you because you think it's so fucking easy, and you think the world will just collapse into place for you since your privileged background has allowed it to do so thus far in your life. Get the fuck over yourself. |
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 11, 2011 3:36:49 GMT -5
I'm not offended. I'm irritated. Privileged people who think they're hot shit but don't know how the world works always irritate me.
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