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Post by onlyaworkingtitle on Jun 5, 2011 22:55:38 GMT -5
Book burning is covered under the right to free speech here in the US, so it's legally acceptable. My opinion? If you want to buy a book and burn it, by all means. Thank you for contributing to the economy and not our trash. I have the sudden urge to encourage this. Help the economy! Save on heating! Books are suddenly (more) multi-purposeful! |
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andy
Young Armadillo
Posts: 80
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Post by andy on Jun 6, 2011 2:11:01 GMT -5
Enjoying novels that promote misogyny is misogynist. Whether or not women take the misogyny with a grain of salt is not the point. The point is that it is there when it doesn't have to be. Stephanie Meyer could have written Twilight without all the sexism, sexual dominance and abuse that she included. No, women do not have to base their belief system on one (or two or three) novels, but that doesn't make writing novels that promote gender inequality are okay. If women don't have to take misogyny to heart, then why are there women's rights movements? Why is there feminism, for that matter? Sorry, but your entertainment is not more important than gender equality. As long as people keep thinking, "Well, it's just a novel. It's not a big deal," then misogyny will continue to exist. Telling women that they're so stupid, they can't be trusted with novels is extremely misogynist. The issue isn't even whether Twilight is entertaining or not - I've personally not read the series and have little interest in ever reading it (which isn't to say that I haven't read incredibly misogynist texts, I had to read Paradise Lost, after all - though strangely a lot less people seem inclined to destroy Milton's books in order to prevent women from getting to them) -, but whether women should be allowed to read Twilight or not. As long as even women portray their gender as stupid, naive and 'impressionable', misogyny will continue to exist. I remember reading a few days ago an article in The Guardian about misogyny in the publishing world and about how TLS publishes a lot less reviews of books written by women than by men and has a lot less women reviewers although on average women read a lot more than men do. When asked about it, one of the TLS editors said that they're not too bothered by the situation because most women wouldn't be able to enjoy the kind of books the TLS reviews - this is the result of the kind of thinking you promote. (You may notice that in my original post I mentioned Teen Witch along with Twilight. I read Teen Witch when I was 12, and I carried around the horrible lies and bad history and just really bad ideas for ten years before I finally figured out that SRW is full of crap. And when I say I carried the ideas around, I mean I defended them like a zealot (or Twihard). I don't like the idea of giving that book away and the same thing happening to someone around that age who is just as impressionable as I am/was.) See, replying to the rest of your post would be pointless because you've just contradicted yourself. You just said that there are two kinds of readers - the naive (possibly young) ones which take in the 'really bad ideas' and the clever ones who manage to figure out that those ideas are wrong. How is that not about intelligence? If you thought that girls and women are able to make up their own mind instead of being extremely naive and stupid, you wouldn't think you have to prevent them from getting to the books they want to read. |
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Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 6, 2011 2:37:12 GMT -5
Perhaps this discussion on the value of Twilight would be better served in the thread reserved for that topic?
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Post by KatjevanLoon on Jun 6, 2011 3:39:09 GMT -5
(You may notice that in my original post I mentioned Teen Witch along with Twilight. I read Teen Witch when I was 12, and I carried around the horrible lies and bad history and just really bad ideas for ten years before I finally figured out that SRW is full of crap. And when I say I carried the ideas around, I mean I defended them like a zealot (or Twihard). I don't like the idea of giving that book away and the same thing happening to someone around that age who is just as impressionable as I am/was.) See, replying to the rest of your post would be pointless because you've just contradicted yourself. You just said that there are two kinds of readers - the naive (possibly young) ones which take in the 'really bad ideas' and the clever ones who manage to figure out that those ideas are wrong. How is that not about intelligence? If you thought that girls and women are able to make up their own mind instead of being extremely naive and stupid, you wouldn't think you have to prevent them from getting to the books they want to read. .....I find it amusing that you keep speaking as if I think I'm apart from the grouping of "girls and women". Yes, obviously, I think all women and girls are naive and stupid, because I'm full of misogyny for being CAFAB.  Again. Read my post carefully. (Or, hey, the one I posted after the one quoted, which explains my position in a bit more detail.) I did not say naive and stupid. I said impressionable and/or young. You can be impressionable at any age. I still have issues with taking in the really bad ideas from things I read, and I'm almost 25. However, Twilight and Teen Witch are marketed to young girls, so it's appropriate to mention age as a factor. Also I never said there are two kinds of readers, so, you know, don't know where you read that. Definitely not in my post. |
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Post by KatjevanLoon on Jun 6, 2011 3:39:33 GMT -5
Perhaps this discussion on the value of Twilight would be better served in the thread reserved for that topic? Agreed. |
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Post by KatjevanLoon on Jun 6, 2011 3:40:35 GMT -5
Book burning is covered under the right to free speech here in the US, so it's legally acceptable. My opinion? If you want to buy a book and burn it, by all means. Thank you for contributing to the economy and not our trash. ...this is a very good point. ;D |
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Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 6, 2011 14:13:39 GMT -5
Book burning is covered under the right to free speech here in the US, so it's legally acceptable. My opinion? If you want to buy a book and burn it, by all means. Thank you for contributing to the economy and not our trash. I have the sudden urge to encourage this. Help the economy! Save on heating! Books are suddenly (more) multi-purposeful! But won't somebody think of the environment?!?! As for burning, and as a librarian, go ahead. I have urges to burn books I hate (Moby Dick) and topics I dislike (I am looking at you, Christian fiction). I understand it when people feel that same way about books I like. I would prefer that you burn them because of reasons that aren't censorship or inspired by moral, religious, and political beliefs but I won't stop you. If it is personal, no problem. I don't know that I feel the same way about mass book burning, though. I don't doubt that I will have a book burning bonfire one day soon. |
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rayyychul
Armadillo
On ne voit bien qu'avec le c?ur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
Posts: 159
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Post by rayyychul on Jun 6, 2011 16:12:31 GMT -5
Please, show me where I said women are stupid. You're twisting my words so you can see what you want to see. I never said women are stupid, I simply said that as long as we promote and accept misogynist novels, we are promoting misogyny.
Want an example of a woman who portrays their own gender as stupid and impressionable? Read Stephanie Meyer's Twilight.
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Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 7, 2011 1:15:51 GMT -5
Guys, seriously, could we please return to the original topic?
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rayyychul
Armadillo
On ne voit bien qu'avec le c?ur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
Posts: 159
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Post by rayyychul on Jun 7, 2011 1:44:53 GMT -5
But tangents are fun  |
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Post by Olive on Jun 7, 2011 9:41:24 GMT -5
Tangents are fun, but I think at this point it wouldn't hurt to start a separate debate thread.
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Post by KatjevanLoon on Jun 7, 2011 20:28:06 GMT -5
If the thread can be split so the tangent thread becomes a new one, that would be ideal.
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Post by onlyaworkingtitle on Jun 7, 2011 21:57:54 GMT -5
BOOKS.
People burn them.
Our general consensus appears to be that this is generally okay.
Any contenders?
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Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 7, 2011 22:01:08 GMT -5
BOOKS. People burn them. Our general consensus appears to be that this is generally okay. Any contenders? Yes, I dislike it because I hate damaging books. Legally, it's okay, though. |
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Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 7, 2011 22:26:50 GMT -5
BOOKS. People burn them. Our general consensus appears to be that this is generally okay. Any contenders? Yes, I dislike it because I hate damaging books. Legally, it's okay, though. And yet you make notes in your copies. Is this not a variant of damaging them? |
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