andy
Young Armadillo
Posts: 80
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Post by andy on Jun 14, 2011 5:00:38 GMT -5
I love the ideas behind SlutWalk (reclaiming language, addressing rape culture and proposing solutions beyond victim blaming: AWESOME), BUT I think that it is a fairly white dominated movement (which is typical of American Feminist movements) so it does not speak to everyone's experiences. I think that the race issues need to be addressed within the SlutWalk organizers/movement, but the idea behind it is A+ I agree and I'm also bothered by the fact that it reinforces the idea that most sex workers do their work because they enjoy sex - which isn't true, most sex workers are victims of human trafficking although western feminists like to think of them as liberated women because it means they don't have to worry about this massive group of predominantly non-white, foreign women being exploited within their communities.
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Post by Sabazius on Jun 14, 2011 6:25:12 GMT -5
I love the ideas behind SlutWalk (reclaiming language, addressing rape culture and proposing solutions beyond victim blaming: AWESOME), BUT I think that it is a fairly white dominated movement (which is typical of American Feminist movements) so it does not speak to everyone's experiences. I think that the race issues need to be addressed within the SlutWalk organizers/movement, but the idea behind it is A+ Why does "white dominated" mean there's an "issue"? It's possible that there is some kind of racial issue in the SlutWalk movement, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a racial imbalance in what is essentially a voluntary movement. Maybe the organisers could work more to engage with non-white feminist groups, but the word 'issue' implies that it's something to do with the ideology of SlutWalk itself. There's a trend in feminism towards trying to find an essential set of shared experiences which make up a woman as a sort of rallying point. The problem with this essentialism is that it can quickly become a criterion for exclusion, as evidenced by the transphobia shown by a lot of feminist thinkers and activists; essentialism can end up dividing people because their experiences do not match with the perceived norm, because of the diversity of experiences across races, ages and sexualities within the feminist movement. I don't think every campaign must encompass all of the 'issues', and SlutWalk is about rape, not race. Making a bigger thing out of the lack of racial diversity shifts the focus off-topic when it's not necessarily an 'issue'. Am I making sense?
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Post by meggieinluckey on Jun 14, 2011 16:51:53 GMT -5
For me, it's an issue because it is a movement claiming to be inclusive and speaking to all women's experiences (aka essentializing), when it doesn't. I don't mean to imply that the problem is with the ideology behind it at all, but I do think that the organizers are thinking that rape effects every single woman in a certain way, when it is different for individuals of different races/classes/gender expression/etc. I do think that when you are creating an event that is classifying itself as feminist, you do need to address race and class in your analysis. Ignoring these factors further erases the experience of minorities (a term I find problematic, but will use for the sake of simplicity) and that just isn't what feminists need to be doing. We should be working to fight sexual assault for individuals of all races/classes/genders etc, not just privileged white able bodied women.
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Post by meggieinluckey on Jun 14, 2011 16:54:28 GMT -5
I love the ideas behind SlutWalk (reclaiming language, addressing rape culture and proposing solutions beyond victim blaming: AWESOME), BUT I think that it is a fairly white dominated movement (which is typical of American Feminist movements) so it does not speak to everyone's experiences. I think that the race issues need to be addressed within the SlutWalk organizers/movement, but the idea behind it is A+ I agree and I'm also bothered by the fact that it reinforces the idea that most sex workers do their work because they enjoy sex - which isn't true, most sex workers are victims of human trafficking although western feminists like to think of them as liberated women because it means they don't have to worry about this massive group of predominantly non-white, foreign women being exploited within their communities. I also agree, although I think that (like almost everything) there is no black or white answer to why sex workers (as a whole) do their work. I see the tendency for feminists to see sex work as a black or white issue, where it is either liberating for the woman, or it is a form of enslavement and trafficking, and both are legitimate answers. However, we can't generalize about these issues, and both sides of the debate need to acknowledge it.
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Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 14, 2011 19:49:56 GMT -5
Agreed with the conclusions you're all coming to on sex workers.
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andy
Young Armadillo
Posts: 80
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Post by andy on Jun 15, 2011 2:28:01 GMT -5
I agree and I'm also bothered by the fact that it reinforces the idea that most sex workers do their work because they enjoy sex - which isn't true, most sex workers are victims of human trafficking although western feminists like to think of them as liberated women because it means they don't have to worry about this massive group of predominantly non-white, foreign women being exploited within their communities. I also agree, although I think that (like almost everything) there is no black or white answer to why sex workers (as a whole) do their work. I see the tendency for feminists to see sex work as a black or white issue, where it is either liberating for the woman, or it is a form of enslavement and trafficking, and both are legitimate answers. However, we can't generalize about these issues, and both sides of the debate need to acknowledge it. I meant that statistically most sex workers are victims of human trafficking. 75% of sex workers working in Amsterdam, for example, come from Eastern European, Asian or African countries and most are illegal immigrants who most often were lured by the promise of well paid jobs (not as sex workers, but as waitresses, unskilled workers, etc) then starved, beaten up and raped by pimps who forced them to work for them. Most don't even speak Dutch and have no way of escaping their situation. And this happens in a country in which prostitution is decriminalized so there's at least supposed to be a lot more control over it than in countries where it's illegal. I personally completely support anybody's decision to become a sex worker - but only as long as it really is their decision, not a pimp's.
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Gina
Armadillo
Every second is a highlight.
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Post by Gina on Jun 17, 2011 21:25:08 GMT -5
I had a huge argument about Slutwalk with my mom the other day. I became a fan of "Slutwalk Chicago" on Facebook, and when she saw it, she became livid and demanded to know what it was. When I explained it to her, she said it didn't make any sense. "Girls shouldn't go into bad areas or dress like that to invite rape," she says. So I went on a rant about how "I forgot that she's so blissfully unaware of the world that she's voting for people that are going to set back feminism about 60 years," etc. She started going on about how "a woman that dresses with half her body hanging out" blah, blah, blah, and I interrupted her with "would deserve the same respect as a woman wearing a business suit". Needless to say, she did NOT like this. It really makes me mad that she can't see how much this culture shifts the blame to a rape victim. It's absolutely sickening. No one walks around "inviting" rape. The thing some people don't understand is that rape isn't done for sex. It's done to show power. It's done to "shut a woman up" or "put her in her place". It's how a man shows his "power" over a woman (Of course, I know that men get raped too, I'm just focusing on the Slutwalk argument). It doesn't matter if the girl is wearing "slutty" clothing or if she is dressed like a nun. If the man wants to demonstrate his "power", he will. I will leave you all with this picture.
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WhatIf
Armadillo Pup
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Post by WhatIf on Jun 24, 2011 15:23:06 GMT -5
I support SlutWalk.
Society victim blames and tells the rapist that it's okay. That's wrong. Dressing "slutty", walking alone, being flirty... it's not going to get you raped.
If anything is going to make you more likely to be a victim of rape it's looking like an easy victim. Being unsure of yourself and not being confident.
It's still not the victims fault, though.
Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. How hard is that for people to understand? I've known that since I was... in middle school? Sometime around then, maybe a bit earlier. My mum watched a lot of sitcoms and they talked about sexual harassment in one.
Then there is the word "slut" itself. It's a problematic word. It promotes the sexual double standard.
The word means... something along the lines of sleeping around, sleeping with a lot of people, having sex outside of a relationship, having more sex than society says is appropriate (they want you to have none, but then you're a prude, and that's bad too), having sex in ways that society doesn't approve of, enjoying sex (what's wrong with that?), looking like you enjoy sex (which is how, exactly?), being friendly or flirty... it doesn't really have a definition. You can be a slut and a virgin.
Honestly, I think that I could fall into the category of "slut". I can't think of one person who could say that and seriously mean it, though.
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