|
|
Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 13, 2011 18:13:36 GMT -5
The misogyny and ignorance in your comment is disgusting. For starters, the idea that men outperform women in sciences and maths is an outdated and incredibly sexist notion. Men dominate fields in science and math because of socialisation wherein women are taught to steer clear of typically "manly" careers. Men are socialised the same way - to stay away for "womanly" careers, which include many careers that can be obtained with an arts degree. Do you think women don't go into construction because they're fragile little creatures, or because society has taught them (be it directly or indirectly) that it's a "man's job"? Here's something to think about: if there are more jobs in sciences, because more people have arts majors, then why aren't women taking advantage of these situations? This. |
|
|
|
Post by onlyaworkingtitle on Jun 14, 2011 1:32:01 GMT -5
Do you think women don't go into construction because they're fragile little creatures, or because society has taught them (be it directly or indirectly) that it's a "man's job"? This is a little off-topic, but my sister has said that, were she not doing what she is right now, she'd love to be a builder, but she "could never tell" her boyfriend that because he'd laugh in her face/think it was too weird or stupid etc. for her to be a builder. Another reason few women go into "masculine" blue-collar jobs: the men who currently work there tend toward the misogynistic. My mom's partner has been working for Con-Ed for the last few years, and has many stories of how awful and backwards-thinking most of her co-workers are on topics of gender roles. |
|
|
|
Post by cyanea on Jun 14, 2011 2:21:54 GMT -5
This is a little off-topic, but my sister has said that, were she not doing what she is right now, she'd love to be a builder, but she "could never tell" her boyfriend that because he'd laugh in her face/think it was too weird or stupid etc. for her to be a builder. Another reason few women go into "masculine" blue-collar jobs: the men who currently work there tend toward the misogynistic. My mom's partner has been working for Con-Ed for the last few years, and has many stories of how awful and backwards-thinking most of her co-workers are on topics of gender roles. Anecdote time: I worked in a trade once. It was a "man's man" trade, with boots and tools and hard hats. We had to go to a company mandated training session which was being led by a woman. She posed a question to the group: "If I came to your site and asked for permission to enter, would you give it to me?" (The idea being "No, because you're wearing a skirt, open-toed shoes, and your hair isn't tied back. All safety hazards.") One guy said, "Of course not. You're a woman. You'd get hurt doing this shit." That's the day I decided to quit that job. |
|
|
|
Post by Olive on Jun 14, 2011 8:16:28 GMT -5
Another reason few women go into "masculine" blue-collar jobs: the men who currently work there tend toward the misogynistic. My mom's partner has been working for Con-Ed for the last few years, and has many stories of how awful and backwards-thinking most of her co-workers are on topics of gender roles. Anecdote time: I worked in a trade once. It was a "man's man" trade, with boots and tools and hard hats. We had to go to a company mandated training session which was being led by a woman. She posed a question to the group: "If I came to your site and asked for permission to enter, would you give it to me?" (The idea being "No, because you're wearing a skirt, open-toed shoes, and your hair isn't tied back. All safety hazards.") One guy said, "Of course not. You're a woman. You'd get hurt doing this shit." That's the day I decided to quit that job. Yeah... I used to work in a tech environment (it was a LAN center/PC repair shop), and eventually quit after 9 months because of how sexist all the rest of my coworkers were. I was originally hired as customer service (you know, smile at all the men that frequented the shop, answer the phone sweetly, ring up any transactions, address envelopes), but with the promise that he'd teach me some of the repair stuff and I'd be able to get raises based on how helpful I turned out to be. About halfway through my time there, just a short while after I turned 18, we were having one of our overnight LAN parties for New Year's Eve. I wanted to work it, because I needed the hours (I had worked a couple overnights before). He said that I could work it... if I wore a bikini top. Fuck. No. For some reason, I let the lack of hours slide. A month or so later, I started nagging him about teaching me stuff, because he hadn't yet. He danced around the topic for a while, and then eventually he and my other male co-worker explained that they weren't going to teach me anything, because I was just a girl. I've got a technological aptitude. I've always done better on math/science portions of standardized exams, my brain works like an engineer's, etc. But because I'm a girl, I apparently wouldn't be able to figure out how to run a diagnostics or anything... Sorry, /vent. |
|
|
|
Post by onlyaworkingtitle on Jun 14, 2011 13:52:52 GMT -5
Anecdote time: I worked in a trade once. It was a "man's man" trade, with boots and tools and hard hats. We had to go to a company mandated training session which was being led by a woman. She posed a question to the group: "If I came to your site and asked for permission to enter, would you give it to me?" (The idea being "No, because you're wearing a skirt, open-toed shoes, and your hair isn't tied back. All safety hazards.") One guy said, "Of course not. You're a woman. You'd get hurt doing this shit." That's the day I decided to quit that job. Yeah... I used to work in a tech environment (it was a LAN center/PC repair shop), and eventually quit after 9 months because of how sexist all the rest of my coworkers were. I was originally hired as customer service (you know, smile at all the men that frequented the shop, answer the phone sweetly, ring up any transactions, address envelopes), but with the promise that he'd teach me some of the repair stuff and I'd be able to get raises based on how helpful I turned out to be. About halfway through my time there, just a short while after I turned 18, we were having one of our overnight LAN parties for New Year's Eve. I wanted to work it, because I needed the hours (I had worked a couple overnights before). He said that I could work it... if I wore a bikini top. Fuck. No. For some reason, I let the lack of hours slide. A month or so later, I started nagging him about teaching me stuff, because he hadn't yet. He danced around the topic for a while, and then eventually he and my other male co-worker explained that they weren't going to teach me anything, because I was just a girl. I've got a technological aptitude. I've always done better on math/science portions of standardized exams, my brain works like an engineer's, etc. But because I'm a girl, I apparently wouldn't be able to figure out how to run a diagnostics or anything... Sorry, /vent. As a chick who built her own desktop, this makes me want to punch those chauvinistic ass-jerks in their chauvinistic ass-jerk faces. GRR. |
|
|
|
Post by Olive on Jun 14, 2011 14:23:04 GMT -5
Yeah... I used to work in a tech environment (it was a LAN center/PC repair shop), and eventually quit after 9 months because of how sexist all the rest of my coworkers were. I was originally hired as customer service (you know, smile at all the men that frequented the shop, answer the phone sweetly, ring up any transactions, address envelopes), but with the promise that he'd teach me some of the repair stuff and I'd be able to get raises based on how helpful I turned out to be. About halfway through my time there, just a short while after I turned 18, we were having one of our overnight LAN parties for New Year's Eve. I wanted to work it, because I needed the hours (I had worked a couple overnights before). He said that I could work it... if I wore a bikini top. Fuck. No. For some reason, I let the lack of hours slide. A month or so later, I started nagging him about teaching me stuff, because he hadn't yet. He danced around the topic for a while, and then eventually he and my other male co-worker explained that they weren't going to teach me anything, because I was just a girl. I've got a technological aptitude. I've always done better on math/science portions of standardized exams, my brain works like an engineer's, etc. But because I'm a girl, I apparently wouldn't be able to figure out how to run a diagnostics or anything... Sorry, /vent. As a chick who built her own desktop, this makes me want to punch those chauvinistic ass-jerks in their chauvinistic ass-jerk faces. GRR. Yeah, made so much sense considering in November (while working there) I had built my own desktop... and he knew about it... and it's still working nearly 3 years later, no problems? |
|
|
|
Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 14, 2011 16:18:08 GMT -5
Well, if we're going to go into "male-oriented" work...
I work at the entertainment venue for my university. I'm on the Conversions crew. It's all manual labour. ALL of it.
The only people who have stayed on for more than a year (and are not supervisors) are girls. Most of those girls can't do much, but will surprise you. Me? Fuck the boys, I can move a full chair cart down the ramp by myself and steer it into the chair and table room. Each chair cart is metal and has approximately 88 chairs, if put in correctly. I can do the basketball court (each pallet we lay down is about 50 pounds). I can unload the court room by myself, and have.
So yes. Fuck the boys. *flexes*
|
|
|
|
Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 14, 2011 21:24:08 GMT -5
Throwing my two cents in here! I have two jobs, one of which is retail. The department I work in is all male, excluding me and another girl. A lot of other girls at work find this intimidating, along with the physical effort you have to put into the department, but I pushed to be trained and placed over there. I never have regretted it. I've been ridiculed by some of the guys, but whatever, traditional gender ideas aren't stopping me. And those that follow them can go fuck themselves.
I faced an internal war when trying to decide on my major. I kinda didn't want to do English because there is that "it's a feminine subject" stigma. I was looking into engineering, math, and science because there is such a small about of women studying those subjects. I love siding with the underdog and standing up for women. I've been over to our university's engineering building and it is creepy. It is all men, with the occasional, odd woman. I did finally decide on English but with a bio minor, hopefully balancing it out a bit.
You want to talk about stigmas and stereotypes? I can't tell you about the amount of SHIT I get from people (who aren't English majors) about my desire to become a librarian.
|
|
|
|
Post by cyanea on Jun 14, 2011 21:25:28 GMT -5
Throwing my two cents in here! I have two jobs, one of which is retail. The department I work in is all male, excluding me and another girl. A lot of other girls at work find this intimidating, along with the physical effort you have to put into the department, but I pushed to be trained and placed over there. I never have regretted it. I've been ridiculed by some of the guys, but whatever, traditional gender ideas aren't stopping me. And those that follow them can go fuck themselves. I faced an internal war when trying to decide on my major. I kinda didn't want to do English because there is that "it's a feminine subject" stigma. I was looking into engineering, math, and science because there is such a small about of women studying those subjects. I love siding with the underdog and standing up for women. I've been over to our university's engineering building and it is creepy. It is all men, with the occasional, odd woman. I did finally decide on English but with a bio minor, hopefully balancing it out a bit. You want to talk about stigmas and stereotypes? I can't tell you about the amount of SHIT I get from people (who aren't English majors) about my desire to become a librarian. Really? I'm biologically male, and -I- got shit for wanting to be a librarian. I guess you just can't win with that profession. |
|
|
|
Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 14, 2011 21:34:59 GMT -5
You want to talk about stigmas and stereotypes? I can't tell you about the amount of SHIT I get from people (who aren't English majors) about my desire to become a librarian. Really? I'm biologically male, and -I- got shit for wanting to be a librarian. I guess you just can't win with that profession. Ughhh. The problem with it is that it is seen as very feminine. From my experience, males get treated like God's gift just because they are such a rare creature in the stacks. But there is the flip side of getting harassed because you have a "feminine" career and are male. I HATE the reaction I get, as a female, from most people I tell. There are basically two stereotypes: the mousy, ever-reading spinster or the sexy librarian. And the "oh, I guess that's the only thing a woman with an English degree can do." |
|
|
|
Post by cyanea on Jun 18, 2011 6:53:19 GMT -5
Have you got those statistics handy? That's a study I'm genuinely interested in reading.
I'd like to see the science behind this statement as well.
el oh el
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 3:05:39 GMT -5
I have a theory that the reason men are considered to be better at maths and physics is because having to pee standing upright gives you an innate grasp of (and interest in) fluid dynamics!  As for gender balances, I don't know the exact statistics for either side of my course, but it's pretty telling that of the thirty people taking 'creating poetry' last semester only one of the others was a guy. Also, I'm not sure if I buck the stereotype or not, what with being one of those homosexuals and all  |
|
|
|
Post by onlyaworkingtitle on Jun 19, 2011 3:34:24 GMT -5
Don't you dare call me sexist, you stupid little small-minded fuck. Hooooookay, name-calling? Not okay. Our goal here is mature discussion, not childish mudslinging. Either chill the fuck out and apologize or explain why you couldn't to the mods, because I will PM them over this in a heartbeat. I have no patience with flat-out insulting statements. |
|
|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 19, 2011 10:30:45 GMT -5
Okay, this wasn't in college. This was AP English Literature in high school. There were only eight girls, and a femenazi teacher. I think the year before there were twelve people, and like one boy. I don't know about your guys's school, but boys in my school were pretty lazy when it came to English. Even in my honors classes the boys would always due the minimum, if they could manage that. I'm not saying it's because they weren't smart enough, well not all of them, but there is a definite lack of interest in both reading and writing, when it comes to English class.
However, when it came to Philosophy, there were boys there, and they were actually interested in the reading material (which I'd say is more challenging... not on content, but on discussion level) and in writing. I would say it all has to do with the teacher. Like I've already said, my AP teacher was a bit of a femenazi, and she was well known for it... which could be a reason why boys avoided that class. However, my Philosophy teacher was pretty awesome, an easy going guy, who might not have appealed to everyone, but was pretty cool nonetheless.
And besides, if it wasn't for my first grade teacher, who I really liked, I bet I wouldn't have liked either learning or reading all that much. So, I think it all has to do with the teacher, and it doesn't matter if the teacher if a woman or a man. However, introduction to learning is important in setting up the future relationship a student has to school.
I'm gonna throw this to our boys in the thread and ask if they have a harder time liking teachers than girls do?
|
|
|
|
Post by KatjevanLoon on Jun 19, 2011 19:43:46 GMT -5
Men are over-represented in the sciences because, statistically, more men have an aptitude for science and math than women. Women are over-represented in the liberal arts majors because, one, women are (genetically) more wired for communication, and two, more women attend college than men these days. Don't be a stupid fuck and call me a sexist because I made a comment on gender aptitudes in general. Don't you dare call me sexist, you stupid little small-minded fuck. Rayychul didn't call you sexist, zie said the notion you were presenting as fact was outdated and sexist. An attack on your ideas is not an attack on you. Welcome to the internet. There is no such thing as gender-based genetic wiring for aptitudes in different fields. Gender is an identity that actually has nothing to do with your genetics. See our gender identity thread for more information on this. Women are socialized to be better communicators, not wired for it. Saying it's genetic is...well, sexist. |
|
