|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 7, 2011 21:28:36 GMT -5
I'll bring this up again. What about works that become the definition of their genre? Or the canon? i.e. Sherlock Holmes as the father of mystery/detective genre. I understand it might have not been the first, but it's what people might think of when thinking of detective novels. I think the canon is a really dangerous thing to include in the definition of literature, since it's overwhelmingly western white dudes teaching the works of other western white dudes (although thats been changing a bit in the last thirty or forty years). But you are right, it is changing, and so the definition will evolve. And bringing race of the author into things just adds another layer of complexity to this definition. I suggest we leave race out before this thread implodes. edit/ at least for now. |
|
rayyychul
Armadillo
On ne voit bien qu'avec le c?ur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
Posts: 159
|
Post by rayyychul on Jun 7, 2011 21:30:22 GMT -5
But what about "literature" books that don't? For example I may be completely indifferent to Dickens. Again, we're back to the reader's opinion. Then you don't agree that Dickens' works are literature. Although I find it very hard to believe anyone can read something without a single emotion or response to the work (admit it, Dickens put you to sleep out of boredom!) |
|
|
|
Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 7, 2011 21:32:35 GMT -5
I smell a new Armadillo. "Dispute meaning of literature with fellow majors. Use Richard Armitage to resolve argument" SUBMIT IT! Done. |
|
|
|
Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 21:32:35 GMT -5
So if "literature" is an arbitrary tag with which any reader can agree or disagree, does that mean there's an actual definition? And if there's no definition, does it exist?
|
|
|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 7, 2011 21:32:57 GMT -5
But what about "literature" books that don't? For example I may be completely indifferent to Dickens. Again, we're back to the reader's opinion. Then you don't agree that Dickens' works are literature. Although I find it very hard to believe anyone can read something without a single emotion or response to the work (admit it, Dickens put you to sleep out of boredom!) I didn't get bored... I got lost... in his really long (mini-van) sentences. |
|
|
|
Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 21:34:23 GMT -5
You know, I think the definition of literature would be a lot easier to find if we just accept phonebooks as literature. Then most of the early definitions in this thread will work.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 7, 2011 21:36:55 GMT -5
You know, I think the definition of literature would be a lot easier to find if we just accept phonebooks as literature. Then most of the early definitions in this thread will work. From dictionary.com: lit·er·a·ture [lit-er-uh-cher, -choor, li-truh-] –noun 1. writings in which expression and form, in connection with ideas of permanent and universal interest, are characteristic or essential features, as poetry, novels, history, biography, and essays. 2. the entire body of writings of a specific language, period, people, etc.: the literature of England. 3. the writings dealing with a particular subject: the literature of ornithology. Origin: 1375–1425; late Middle English litterature < Latin litterātūra grammar. See literate, -ure —Related forms pre·lit·er·a·ture, noun —Synonyms 1. Literature, belles-lettres, letters refer to artistic writings worthy of being remembered. In the broadest sense, literature includes any type of writings on any subject: the literature of medicine; usually, however, it means the body of artistic writings of a country or period that are characterized by beauty of expression and form and by universality of intellectual and emotional appeal: English literature of the 16th century. Belles-lettres is a more specific term for writings of a light, elegant, or excessively refined character: His talent is not for scholarship but for belles-lettres. Letters (rare today outside of certain fixed phrases) refers to literature as a domain of study or creation: a man of letters. |
|
|
|
Post by Eternal Lobster on Jun 7, 2011 21:37:50 GMT -5
Then you don't agree that Dickens' works are literature. Although I find it very hard to believe anyone can read something without a single emotion or response to the work (admit it, Dickens put you to sleep out of boredom!) I didn't get bored... I got lost... in his really long (mini-van) sentences. See, I think that we are still arguing over semantics and whether or not the definition should cover ALL people or individuals. Individually, Marina doesn't consider Dickens literature. But that doesn't mean that other people CAN'T consider it literature. EDIT: And if you are going to drag a dictionary into this, you have to use the OED. |
|
rayyychul
Armadillo
On ne voit bien qu'avec le c?ur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
Posts: 159
|
Post by rayyychul on Jun 7, 2011 21:37:51 GMT -5
Does something need an actual definition in order to exist? Does "actual" always mean "one"? If you look nearly any word up in the dictionary, you will find more than one definition.
On top of that, there are many concepts that have arbitrary definitions, yet we do not question their existence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 7, 2011 21:37:56 GMT -5
So basically.... it is the written word.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 7, 2011 21:38:10 GMT -5
I feel inclined to state that is because you don't believe there is such a thing as literature, based on your use of an italicized "if" in a previous statement. True, but if literature does exist, then I wouldn't give it an opposite. Like, I would never say something like "erotica isn't literature" or "Twilight isn't literature." I feel like those arguments are just pretentious and judgmental. But then we're back to the original definition I proposed because we have no reason to exlude anything. |
|
|
|
Post by Dodger Thirteen on Jun 7, 2011 21:39:16 GMT -5
So basically.... it is the written word. *cat ate canary grin* |
|
rayyychul
Armadillo
On ne voit bien qu'avec le c?ur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
Posts: 159
|
Post by rayyychul on Jun 7, 2011 21:40:01 GMT -5
So basically.... it is the written word. *cat ate canary grin* You ate a canary? Gross. |
|
|
|
Post by Fuck Yeah Dion on Jun 7, 2011 21:40:02 GMT -5
You know, I think the definition of literature would be a lot easier to find if we just accept phonebooks as literature. Then most of the early definitions in this thread will work. From dictionary.com: lit·er·a·ture [lit-er-uh-cher, -choor, li-truh-] –noun 1. writings in which expression and form, in connection with ideas of permanent and universal interest, are characteristic or essential features, as poetry, novels, history, biography, and essays. 2. the entire body of writings of a specific language, period, people, etc.: the literature of England. 3. the writings dealing with a particular subject: the literature of ornithology. Origin: 1375–1425; late Middle English litterature < Latin litterātūra grammar. See literate, -ure —Related forms pre·lit·er·a·ture, noun —Synonyms 1. Literature, belles-lettres, letters refer to artistic writings worthy of being remembered. In the broadest sense, literature includes any type of writings on any subject: the literature of medicine; usually, however, it means the body of artistic writings of a country or period that are characterized by beauty of expression and form and by universality of intellectual and emotional appeal: English literature of the 16th century. Belles-lettres is a more specific term for writings of a light, elegant, or excessively refined character: His talent is not for scholarship but for belles-lettres. Letters (rare today outside of certain fixed phrases) refers to literature as a domain of study or creation: a man of letters. Hahah we've got a six page thread on the definition of literature, when most people in their right mind would just look it up. English major bullshit. |
|
|
|
Post by Marina on Jun 7, 2011 21:40:25 GMT -5
So basically.... it is the written word. *cat ate canary grin* Don't make me press the [Smite] button! |
|
